Citadels easier than Lairs
complete
Vit Barta
complete
Danforth Update - v 1.0.58746 - 11/06/2020
Pandoran Citadels are now bigger and have a more labyrinthian design with high walls blocking the players’ line of sight.
Weapon and ammo crates can now be found in Citadels as well as alien structures.
The Scylla has more Hit Points and more armour on each body part. Disabling any of its body parts results in more stacks of Bleed damage.
Vit Barta
Merged in a post:
A Way to fix the Citadel Mission
Mike Ibeji
Lairs & Citadels are currently too easy to Cheeze because they end the minute you kill the Maguffin. The Devs have made a very good suggestion for Lairs @ Improved Pandoran Lairs and Citadels.
My suggestion for Citadels is that you turn the Queen’s chair around, so that it is facing away from the Squad (preventing them from Sniping or lobbing grenades into anything in there), and start the Scylla in the conch shell, resting on her throne. She will not move out of her protective throne until Alerted – and she cannot be Alerted until a Squaddie gets round the conch shell and triggers her. That way, you have choose either to put at least 1 Squaddie in danger, to lure the Scylla out into Sniper range; or to mount a coordinated assault down one side of the map to get to her.
Either way, this prevents the current: Locate the Scylla – Snipe the Scylla – Win the scenario before the Scylla has even moved meta that the Citadel has currently degenerated into.
Vit Barta
Patch 1.0.57335 “Derleth”
Changed the Lair missions' layout and objective. Players now have to evacuate all of their units after destroying the Spawnery.
Citadels will be addressed in the next patch. Probably in a way that it will not be possible to kill Scylla in the first turn and you will also have to evacuate after killing her.
Kevin Winston
Vit Barta: I respectfully disagree with the method of solving this issue. Adding a requirement to extract in these missions is not a proper solution to address the issue which is scylla being easy to kill and the extractionb requirement will only make lair/citadel more tedious. In my opinion, an alternative way would be buffing scylla power, health, and abilities. Scylla should be a fearsome boss for players.
Vit Barta
We are working on changes for both Lairs and Citadels. Lairs change should come in the next patch. The Lair mission will not end after destroying the spawnery but you will also have to evacuate your soldiers afterward. Pandoran respawning points will be close to your deployment zone at the beginning of the map so you are pushed deep into the Lair. We will also improve the Lair mission variety. Currently, lair has 2 designs (plots). There will be 6 more. We also added more obstacles and covers to Lairs so you can hide from Chirons.
T
Torinus
Vit Barta: That all sounds good. Just please slow down rate of enemy reinforcements if now we need to battle them both ways.
M
Michael Osborne
Vit Barta: Cool. To balance will you stop sirens showing up as reinfocements? Infinite sirens on a map full of LoS blockers is the worst.
Steve Crook
Vit Barta: More cover is good. I'm trying to work my way around a lair with squad destroying acid Chiron and there's nowhere to hide. Even the splash damage is lethal over a couple of turns.
Which got me wondering why there's no anti-acid equivalent of the med-kit. Researchable after first encounter with acid firing thing...
Matt Mercer
Vit Barta: This should definitely make Lair mission more interesting and high-stakes, but won't all this just make them even harder when they're already more difficult to clear than Citadels? More cover from Chirons is good, but will the changes also address:
1) There's no indication of where the spawnery which is the mission objective may be, which leads to potentially still missing it even if you go over 90% of the map since it's usually in a hole in a corner that you can't see into unless you're on top of it. For example, in Nests the spawning sentinels are placed where you run into them naturally in the big junction caverns while exploring the map.
2) As mentioned by others, the sirens that spawn should probably be toned down or have reduced spawn rate - they can already feel a bit overwhelming when the mission ends by destroying the spawnery, having to wade back out to extract through innumerable sirens would be more frustrating than anything. There's only 1-2 Chirons and 2-3 Terror Sentinels (which can't move) on the map, maybe there should be a spawn limit for Sirens in Lairs as well.
3) Not sure if this is an issue for others, but Terror Sentinels have an absolutely huge range which can panic even fresh soldiers from halfway across the map if they trigger. The range I understand is necessary since they're tall and the map is very open so it's easy for soldiers to get shots on them, but maybe the WP hit could be reduced? Also, if the map is becoming less open with more cover from Chirons and soldiers will have reduced sightlines, the range of Terror Sentinels might need to be rebalanced as well.
Kevin Hill
Just a quite note. Please refrain from using all caps on post titles. In addition, consider using post titles that are more likely to be meaningful to other poster, or people searching for existing issues. "Nix the Magguffins" isn't obvious to anyone what it is and would unlikely be found in a search.
Mike Ibeji
Kevin Hill: OK, sorry. I should point out though that this post is directly linked to a Thread I've started on the Snapshot Forum, so anyone who is interested in it will link to it from there.
Mårten Woxberg
Please just show where the damn thing is that I'm supposed to destroy, instead of me cheesing out the game by trying to path into every hole on the map figuring out where it is, just show me where...
M
MKI
Exactly this. nests and lairs are annoying or boring to play. Citadels are the best because they are really quick to cope. Please tweak all 3 missions to go from easiest to hardest and orientated on the fight length of a citadel mission on all 3. Thanks
LouisdeFuines
At the moment with Leviathan balance is just fine, so that Lairs are very well doable. In my opinion you can keep the level now.
Vit Barta
in progress
We are currently working on improving player experience in both citadels and lairs. We do not have ETA yet.
M
Michael Osborne
Perhaps the key point is the stage at which Lairs start to appear. It's very early. Iften the second colony you discover, ie after the second raid you intercept. Once you have L7 soldiers and perhaps a little tech, it is manageable enough. But that early it is real difficulty spike. Also fighting 7 sirens is seriously unfun. Ditto boom chirons without LoS, which is a more general point, but Lairs have more LoS blockers and fewer buildings for shelter than other maps. Goo/worm chiron + 3 sirens + 6 extra arthrons/tritons instead of the other 3/4 sirens, all good.
Rogier van Vugt
Michael Osborne: FYI: I saw elsewhere that there will be a max nr of sirens in a patch soon.
(but hoping it will not be 2 across the board, but 2 on normal and 1 more for each diff. next)
M
Michael Osborne
Rogier van Vugt: Thanks. Yes that would be a good change. Sirens are good enemies in moderation but game-breaking en masse.
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