Make machine guns useful at range
Saph
What machine guns like the Deceptor should be good at:
• Suppressing enemies at range
• Engaging groups of enemies at range
• Taking out large dangerous targets from a safe distance
What machine guns in PP version 1.7 are actually good at:
• Shooting enemies from 5 feet away
• Beating enemies to death with as a club
Suggested fix: Increase the effective range of the Deceptor/Uragan to 30-35 or so, but make them cost 4 APs to fire or Overwatch with. This would mean you'd have to set up Heavies on one turn before firing them on the next. I'm still not sure this would make them better than the Synedrion assault rifle (which does 30x6 damage reliably at a range of 37), but it'd at least give them a niche.
Sean Sullivan
You could have a stabilizer mount for Heavy Armor that basically fixes the armor's accuracy penalties and helps dial it in.
The Juggernaut Torso and Legs currently provide bonuses, but you have to commit to those permanently, so a mount option might also be good.
Drages Oversky
As I am doing some tests via modding, having more bullets per shot and deleting acc penalties from heavy armor will make all heavy weapons much more playable.
Ryan R
At first it may appear counter-intuitive, but I think it has its role already as a large target destroyer, and close-medium range zone control. Considering these people are wielding these behemoths underhand, I'd imagine the accuracy is likely to be terrible and not ideal for long range engagements for the machine gun.
Yeah I mostly ignore enemies with MGs on missions... except with my vehicle, that vehicle needs to hide from them... or do I distract them with the vehicle so they don't fire Fury-2's at me?
I'll admit though that I tend not to use soldiers who only have a Strongman perk with the MG. Only Strongman/Reckless I tend to make them into Grenade Launcher users. MGs are often carried on people who have a talent for a PDW/Assault Rifle as well, or as a sidearm for a multi-class with no talent in heavy weapons, just for the shred and non-reliance on accuracy.
I think it already has its niche, but maybe just not one many people imagine when they think "Heavy Machine Gun" and an image of a soldier wielding a Light Machine Gun gets mixed up with a soldier attempting to wield a typically vehicle-mounted machine gun. I think of a game like Halo, where MC rips off the mounted machine guns and wields them underhand... that is a terribly inaccurate weapon, especially at long range... but pretty devastating up close. Seems familiar.
Ryan R
"Suppressing enemies at range" shooting at an enemy now reduces that enemy's AP by 1 on the following turn provided at least one bullet hits the target (to a minimum of 3, does not stack with war cry or paralysis) Ha... I wonder how that'd mix things up, if at all...
Carlos Eduardo
Ryan R: Nice idea for supression, but I would cap it at 2 AP like war cry. It could even replace war cry as it's a bit OP. Supression fire could be just like overwatch, the difference is that any hit would remove AP. The bad news is that this mechanic already exists in a similar form, which is overwatching with a paralyzing weapon.
Oz Dillon
I'll note, that MG's do have some carry over with
missing
rounds fired at a target. Have actually seen hits on multiple targets near & in front of, or behind the target. Especially when the target is grouped fairly close together.The trade off is, you run the chance of hitting your troops if in the arc too.
Oz Dillon
Agreed 100%. Given my RL combat experiences, encroaches on my gaming life, this has been a huge bugaboo for me. Machine guns, and even the hand held canon ranges are next to useless. By the time you're in effective range, the weapons and troops are either destroyed, or damaged beyond use. :(
E
Eric Stelle
I think that a fix could be the angle of suppression vs range of suppression. For example, you want to cover a wide area, you won't be able to really go very far but, if you want to pin down a narrow area such as a corner, you can focus in for a longer, narrow area of suppression.
I almost think that the current "rage burst" is probably what we're going for in terms of suppression fire.
Then again, enemies would have to, upon taking the first round, choose self preservation for suppression to really work as it should.
Decker Haven
Makes sense, given that real-world machine guns are usually used at longer range.
Carlos Eduardo
If you implement it this way, you could make a sniper/heavy that used it for 3AP... There's another post for the option of setting up a (heavy) weapon. I think it would be better this way, you would be able to fire it normally for 3AP like today but have the option to spend your turn setting it up for a big boost in accuracy in the next.
We should be careful with what we ask for, imagine facing enemy NJ/Independent heavies with this ability :P
Mikko Haatainen
The weapon needs some change, that’s for sure. Currently the Heavy enemy’s thrown grenades threaten you at longer range than their minigun/machine gun. (Well, same for your soldiers, but replying to this example)
Carlos Eduardo
Mikko Haatainen: Yeah I agree that it does. There's a lot of topics in the forums about the heavy weapons in general, good stuff, the discussion almost derailed to red vs blue on some topics but fortunately it got back on track on all of them. Awesome community.