Replace ODI with survival of humanity
complete
Vit Barta
Replace the ODI meter with human population meter, showing the surviving population / initial population. The player loses if the human population reaches some low number or zero.
Protecting Havens will be more important. We will reduce the number of Havens in the world but make haven defense rewards more significant. Pandoran attacks on Havens will be increasingly deadly.
Mist repellers will be more important because we will increase the mist threat to human population attrition.
On higher difficulty, Pandoran research progresses faster which includes greater threats to the human population which makes saving people more challenging.
The population will affect Haven zones. Haven zones will stop functioning when the population gets low but the player will have an option to repair these zones. The zones will affect the Havens - for example repairing a training facility will help protect the haven and repairing food production will prevent population loss.
Vit Barta
complete
Phoenix Point v. Cthulhu 1.6 - 30/07/2020
ODI has been removed.
Human Population Census has been added that will track the total population of humanity.
Protecting Havens is more important as the player has to prevent the total human population from reaching a certain threshold (based on difficulty level).
Reduced the total number of Havens in the Geoscape.
Increased the rewards from successfully defending Havens.
Haven facilities will break down if the population gets too low.
Phoenix can assist havens by repairing their structures.
Mark Richards
I suggested this exact death clock back during the FIG campaign. Hurray for Hollywood.
Serge
This is a good idea. But please also consider making following change -> in case of faction vs faction war (which is already stupid enough during war vs Pandoran) -> and one faction attacks the haven of another faction and wins -> instead of destroying the haven -> they conquer it and change it to their own. This is more logical especially during the dire race for human survival. When each haven is a part of mankind survival. And each haven destroyed is what Pandoran wants. It does make zero sense when faction are destroying their own chances of winning this war.
Carlos Eduardo
Serge: good one. A percentage of the population could move to the nearest havens of the same faction because they would not stay with the enemies, and another percentage would be lost in the fight or in transit while fleeing.
Xavier Diaz
Serge: It's not stupid. Humans are that destructive, and after a full on war the place might not even be worth habitating anymore.
Christian Mitchell
Oh Dear god no.. Less havens means less recruits. Which would mean-None in a couple of attepted play throughs ive had recently I've had to restart the campaign as there was no recruits in the entire continent.. Less places to trade with. Just had a play thrpough where there was no one who wasnt growing food. This is not the way to fix the stoopid ODI thing. You will also have no havens by the second month because none of them can actually stand up to an attack from a flipping mindfragger despite being better armed and supplied than PP.. This is strating to look less like a strategy game and more like a five minute pop video. I get that most people have an attension span of three seconds but there is Doom for you lot.
Xavion Morton
Christian Mitchell: They already have a solution concerning player recruits, check in the proposed changes but basically players will no longer rely on recruiting from individual havens and will instead recruit directly from their bases.
R
Rodrigo Perez Varela
From what I understand, the idea here is to make protecting havens (and by extension mankind) more important. I get that... but I see two immediate problems as a result of this:
1- "We will reduce the number of Havens in the world but make haven defense rewards more significant." This will lead to a decrease in the number of training centers in the world and by extension, less recruits available to the player as well as less recruit variety overall. This could solve a problem, but could also create a new one at the same time.
2- Factions will inevitably get into war with each other... and we all know what happens next: they launch attacks on dozens of heavens in an indiscriminated genocide, obliterating what they can. This will lead to this "human population" meter to plummet very quickly and there will be little that the player will be able to do about it.
V
Voland
Rodrigo Perez Varela: good points. As to 1), there is a change marked "in progress" re recruitment, so it shouldn't be a problem. As to 2), I wonder about that too - something will have to be done about it.
Carlos Eduardo
Idea seems really good! Mike Ibeji has a point though, there must be a non-resource-spending way of reverting the doom clock a bit. It's really nice to be able to help havens, would be really good if trading could help them also besides repairing. Havens could even ask for trade in desperate times if they have too much of one resource and too few of another!
Morrythe Morr
This is a great improvement!
Kareem Harper
I really like this idea.
Mike Ibeji
Interesting. So does that mean that taking down Lairs & Citadels will have no effect on reducing the rate of the (new) ODI? It sounds like the player will have no way to reverse the timer at all - which as I discovered in my first playthrough causes the classic JG: "I'd already lost and I didn't even know it," syndrome.
V
Voland
Mike Ibeji: I assume that destroying Pandoran bases will prevent them from attacking havens, thus reducing population loss from attacks. Given the short length of the conflict I don't think significant increase of population to counter war casualties would make sense....
Mike Ibeji
Voland: Voland: And that's my concern. Atmo, it is technically possible to pull yourself back from the brink by going out and inflicting mayhem on as many Lairs & Citadels as you can. With the changes as they are currently proposed, that claw-back mechanism is removed. Which means that if (as I did), you discover that the end-game research just keeps going on and on and on and on and on and on and on... (you get the point), and the ODI has crept up to near breaking point, there is no way to extend the game long enough for that interminable endgame Research to finish.
TBH, the end of my first campaign was particularly underwhelming in this respect: I was at 98% ODI, I had FINALLY reached the last endgame Research (I think) and was 1 day off completing it when I went on a 2 Lair + 1 Citadel Cheeze run to get the ODI down just enough to buy myself time to finish the game - and because they had nerfed the ODI reduction in the last patch, I missed it by 0.5%. But at least I could try. Now imagine you get to that point and discover that there is NOTHING you can do to pause the timer and buy yourself that extra day. That's an entire campaign wasted (in my case 4 months of playing time).
Julian Gollop himself once criticised XCOM for enabling you to 'lose the game without even realising it' and only discovering that fact months later. As this game currently stands, that is precisely what can happen - and this change as currently stated will only make that worse.
V
Voland
Mike Ibeji: TBH, I never had this issue as I tend to rush through, and once I'm swimming in resources I build
farms
of research labs, but you are absolutely right. If you put in a timer, make sure there is a way of turning back the clock. For example, even in the original Fallout you could make a deal with the water merchants to supply water, and it was brilliant. How about if the player could rescue communities of survivors from the wilderness?Mike Ibeji
Voland: Yea, I'm kinda the opposite. I like to take my time and savour the world. Then you suddenly discover that the blasted timer is ticking and have to rush to the endgame. Ho hum.
Vit Barta
planned
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