There is no value in crossbows
complete
John Gonon
Hopefully, someone will prove me wrong. But I don't find any value in crossbows. There is only 3 ammo, it doesn't hit hard. Why would I use it rather than a Deimos when I can have double damage ?
I guess that originally the crossbows were meant to be "silent". That would add a lot of value and make them relevant. The capacity of shooting stuff without getting "located" would go well with the "infiltration" logic.
Please make the crossbows "silent", even if it means lowering the damage.
M
Matt Hobbs
Acid Crossbows
Vit Barta
complete
Patch 1.0.56617
Crossbows are now recognised as silent weapons.
Vit Barta
in progress
We will make crossbows silent.
Ementrude
Armour piercing, silent, explosive bolts would be great. Perhaps later development, but enhanced ammo.
Nords H
At one action point and given how poison works, strongly disagree in terms of the Syn Psyche CRB.
Edit: In saying that, their value would certainly be increased if the cost of ammo was reduced, and/or stealth mechanics were altered as mentioned.
John Gonon
Nords H: Psyche 50 damage, any PDW does more and has more ammo. Poison is nice, but if the target survives this turn it doesn't really matter.
Nords H
John Gonon: Psyche is 90 damage, 40 unaffected by armour; this is only 10 damage more from the Enforcer 4x20 burst and Defender 4x20 burst (20 piercing) in a best case, 0 armour and 1 turn scenario. (I think there's a laser PDW but never used it myself.)
Negotiating armour can very easily put the Psyche well ahead (it takes just 20 armour to completely negate the Enforcer damage and each point above 20 armour reduces the Defender by 5%), Psyche has a better accuracy, and combining with a panic to start rolling multiple turn guaranteed damage at only -10 poison per turn to the cumulative poison value rockets the crossbow ahead in a damage per action point analysis.
To compare against the Deimos per your title post, 2 AP does 30x6 vs Psyche's 2x50 + 80 (unaffected by armour). The exact same damage in a 0 armour 1 turn scenario, vastly tilting in the Psyche's favour with the addition of armour or multiple turns.
I personally found the value of a priest panic plus stacking poison/burning/bleeding on larger targets whilst clearing out the smaller threats as quick as possible to be a great strategy when alpha-striking everything in the first turn wasn't an option.
John Gonon
Nords H: I do my comparisons by factoring the +100% from infiltrator level 7 perk. Otherwise ARs and PDWs are clearly bad.
Gorgon Eye-A is 80x4 damage for 1AP compared to 100+40.
20 armor: 60x4 vs 80+40 => 240 vs 120
30 armor: 50x4 vs 70+40 => 200 vs 110
Defender & Enforcer PDW: 20 armor => 40x4 = 160, 30 armor => 30x4 = 120
Piranha AR (2AP): 20 armor => 70x4 = 280, 30 armor => 60x4 = 240
Indeed other PDWs and ARs suffer the comparison. Gorgon Eye-A is kind of an out liar and has worst accuracy than Psyche. The biggest drawback in Psyche is the number of ammo which means you are out of ammo by the end of a lair (with full inventory). Other than that, it is quite good.
Nords H
John Gonon: Ah, good point, Reckless, too, works better as it does not affect the poison component.
Definitely agree with the ammo too: hurts both the weight limit for more clips, and the reloading if not paired with instant reloads from the assault class.